Short Track Models
Construction Topics => Fab shop-under construction pics => Topic started by: Lefturns75 on May 29, 2018, 04:29:56 PM
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I have wanted to try this for some time as all my others have mostly been based off the Tri-five chassis. This time, I wanted to try a Howe copy from around 72-74 like I watched at I-70 back in the day. This car is inspired by two 68's I saw run there but is not a replica of either one. I started with the AMT 68 El Camino chassis and a pile of Evergreen rod and square. I picked the AMT 68 Camaro body as I had a couple doing nothing and if I barf one up, I have a couple of spares to destroy. After looking through a 1973 Ed Howe Catalog, A Larry Phillips Catalog and some old issues of Stock Car Mag I sketched out what I wanted and started cutting. After a couple of days scratching my head I finally came up with this bare bones chassis.
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So far, it fits the body and I am ready for all the brackets, suspension pieces and interior tin work. I should have this one up on all fours in about a week with some luck.
(https://s26.postimg.cc/642vkkszt/DSCN4593.jpg)
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Well Fap!!! Now the pics won't load. I'll try and fix this I hope.
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Nice work on the chassis. This is going to make a nice looking race car. I will be watching for progress updates.
Bob
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I am liking it and looking forward to seeing it done
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Didn't get much done today, too many other things taking away from bench time. I was able to fab up the third link bracket and get that installed and got the brackets and spring pads on the quick change rear. I robbed the rear coil springs from a Super Stocker kit because I can use the jack bolt to set the final ride height in the rear. Before I attach any of the rear suspension I will move along to the front and get all that stuff set where I want it and then finish the rear suspension. I am happy so far with the fit of the chassis in the body. I am sure there will be fit problems as I go along but there always are. I will deal with them when I come to them. More later.
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Beautiful fabrication work. Where did you find a 1/25 scale tubing bender to make such smooth bends? :P I am definitely going to watch this one. I believe with a small amount of modification it could also be used as a foundation for a slab-sided modified like they are running today.
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Rick, believe it or not, my tubing bender is my fingers and eyeballs. I will sometimes use a very small amount of heat to help get the bend I need. I find the marked off squares on the cutting board you see in the pics help keep things running straight. Yes, I guess you could use this style as a slab sided mod chassis if the cage was set back a little more. Here is a pic of a chassis I started around 1997 and has flopped around in the box since then. It was going to be an IMCA style mod and I tried to copy the chassis of one I was helping with at the time. I used the same kit chassis rails but the cage is off-set and set back more. The other thing I do is test-fit about a jillion times---or it feels like it. I might end up making a part up to six times before I get what I want. I have also found that there are some things that just never look right in 1/25 or 1/24 and you just have to resort to the slight-of-hand tricks make it appear correct even though it is not. I have found that nothing ever fits nothing and when it does, it's the wrong scale.
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....... After looking through a 1973 Ed Howe Catalog, A Larry Phillips Catalog.....
Any chance of you posting pictures from those catalogs? Great pieces of reference material....
I am watching this one come together .....always enjoy looking at a period correct build.
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I wouldn't call this a "Period Correct" build, it is more a "Of the Period" build. The basic layout is from 72-74 but I have a lot of those "This is what I would have done" things thrown in also. I want it to appear as from that period but with my twist. I almost have the front suspension figured out and should have some up date pics in a day or so. The one part that has me worried is those 180 degree headers. those are always a nightmare to bend up. They were also a PITA to put on the 1:1 too. I never had my hands on a set that actually fit like they should, they always took some sort of mods. For what they cost back then, I always thought they should have fit much better. If I had all the aftermarket parts I have had through the years that didn't fit, didn't work or I had to modify in one pile………well, I'd have a pretty big pile. I figure if my name had been Shear, Trickle, Reffner or Detjens, the parts I got would have been pretty darn good. As it was, I think I got every factory reject and cull.
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Every time I get headlong into one of these builds, it reminds me why I have so many stuck back in the box. I got the chassis painted and the suspensions finally finished. The three link on the rear made me say a few well chosen words but it finally fell into place.
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I was able to get this buggy up on all four feet and low and behold all four touch the ground! I guess I must have said all the right words. I also got the fenders hogged out and the body fit pretty well. I kinda like the stance so I will leave that alone. I can still fool with the off-set on the wheels and tires some.
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I still have the shocks to finish and mount and then it's on to interior tin and stuffing an engine in there. Maybe another week or so and I can get some paint on it and get ready for some saturday night fun.
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Same here, miss seeing those sit back bodies from back in the day.
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I managed to get all the shocks made and mounted and even bent up a set of 180 headers. I used a photo I printed up of some Schoenfeld 180's that are copies of the early HRE header. This is the point where I will have to stop for a day or so as my hands are starting to cramp and my eyeballs are SHOT!. I will use the time to clean off my desk of all the sanding dust and trimmings and clean my tools. Oh yes, the headers are solder and all the bolts on the shocks and suspension are doll house nails and/or bolts from Tichy Train Group. The engine is a combination of AMT 55 Chevy Pickup, Revell 67 Chevelle, (Trans and bell housing) valve covers from I am not sure what and the intake is from the AMT 55 Chevy Sedan kit. Some parts might change but the basic make up will stay the same. The front spring buckets are evergreen tube and the upper "A's" were cut off one of those MPC modified chassis as I thought they looked close to the HRE upper of the time. Just one more part I didn't have to make. Once the engine is assembled, painted and weathered a little you will never notice the Mish-Mash of parts. If that sort of thing bugs you, get over it, I'm doing this my way.
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I'm glad this part is over. Those headers are a real nightmare but are easy to tweak once installed. With a little Metalizer burnt metal and a little rust, they will be good to go. And the chrome on that intake has to go.
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..................... all the bolts on the shocks and suspension are doll house nails and/or bolts from Tichy Train Group.
Can you, by chance, either provide mfg. names, part #'s or sizes ....I am very interested in giving this a try myself....what you have managed to do with the Evergreen rod and square is beyond compare.
Putting this one in the reference folder for sure...even if its your unique "of the period" I think it represents quite well. :)
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OK, here is the parts-----
Square is Evergreen #176 .100x .125" strips and #166 .080 x .125" strips.
Tube and rod is Evergreen # 222 1/16" rod---(for suspension links.) #223 3/32" tube (For Shocks) and #212 rod, .080" for roll cage.
Nuts and bolts are Tichy Train Group and I no longer have the package so I don't know the number. Take a look at their HO 6" washer and 3" bolt and larger. They have a ton of stuff that works well for us 1/24-1/25 guys.
Wheels are PPP #W5 Wide Five
Tires are PPP #VHA early hoosier asphalt tires. They look a lot like the early Firestones so you can call em what you want. They come with Hoosier decals.
I also don't have the package for the doll house nails. I picked them up in the doll house section of Hobby Lobby some years ago. They are tiny brass colored nails. They will be with all the little brass hinges.
The Chassis if from the AMT 1968 El Camino kit # 8017. I bought a couple of the frames on Flea-Pay for about $3.50 each. Beats paying $20 for a kit just to rob the chassis out of.
The Solder I used for the headers is .062 Dia. and is solid with no rosin core. This represents the large tube header pretty well. Shock rod is paper clip wire with a sliver of black wire insulation from some small electronic wire for the stops. (Travel indicator) Everything else is just scrap plastic carved and filed to shape and some .065" K&S brass tube I use for attaching the wheels. You can find all kinds of reference pics on the net but the early 70's HRE chassis is kinda hard to find pics of. Everything else is pretty common. Any other questions just ask. I was lucky enough back in the day to get to see this stuff and even touch some of it so that helps me some. It is not perfect but it represents the equipment pretty close. By the way, the body is not set-back much if any. It is the suspension mounting points that are moved forward. On the Chevelle style chassis, the lower A arms are swapped side for side, which moved the center forward. The rear was moved forward to keep the 108" wheel base. That is why some of these cars didn't fit the stock wheel wells that well and made it look like the body was set back a ton. You could move the engine back the small amount that was legal and the forward suspension made it look like it was moved a foot. Just another way to move weight around. 'Ol Ed Howe was a pretty smart old cuss I reckon.
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Outstanding Work! Those headers look great. The extra effort really pays off.
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Man, this is looking awesome, George. That frame is a thing of beauty. Very clean work.
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Outstanding work on this build. Thanks for all the detailed information. I will be watching the progress and anxious to see the finished project.
Bob
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Here I am once again working on one of the tasks I don't like, interior tin. Now the only reason I am showing this mess is to show how I do it. I use file card and cut and bend it up much like you would do on the 1:1. I have no kit interior to help me cheat this in there. After two file cards and a lot of Cuttin' it fits with the body on and won't look too bad when painted. I am proud of myself as I didn't use that many bad words while doing this and I didn't cut myself or knock off any parts. I now remember that if any suspension detail is to be seen from the top, I will have to cut out the deck lid. And I just thought I was getting close to done, yeah, right. Had I not started this build thread, I would already have this one back in the box and be working on a Modified Stocker Kit---out of the box. I'll finish this one, I have gone too far now. It will never see a contest table but should be fun to look at.
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I'm loving watching this one come together.
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Another short up-date. I got the interior tin finished, mounted the engine and got the exhaust dumps pretty well mocked up. I also cut out the deck lid which leads to some more body work in that area. Everything in dry-fit mock-up still fits so I will move on with the rest of the assembly. This one has been fun but I learned what NOT to do on the next one. I will break this thing back down and do all the little tweaks and detail painting. I doubt I do another up-date and the next pics I post will be the finished car with paint and sponsor logos. I won't say what the Sponsor is just yet but the colors are Orange and White. Thankx fer watching this mess come together.
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Oh YEAH!!
Lookin' GOOD!!
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Great job! Thanks for posting all the progress updates! I would have a migraine headache after all this work.
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I now have this project down to the "Short Rows" if you will. Body is in paint and the deck lid and hood is soaking, I barfed them up. I also destroyed two sets of PE seat belt sets. I did a set a couple of years ago for this Corvette SCCA build and they came out fine and I was happy with them as you can see in the pic.
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I now find that I can't do them anymore so I will just leave them out of this build. I might take a breath and try a third set but I really think the age is catching up with the eyes and fingers. This age thing is starting to grind my gears but I ain't gonna grow up no matter what. I got all the plumbing done in the engine bay and got the fuel cell installed. I will add the filler neck when the body goes on. Paint, graphics and a little body work is all that is left and maybe by mid week I can have the final shots posted in the "Cars with Fenders" section. I think I'm ready for a snap kit now.
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Really great detail work. Super looking so far!
Rett
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Nope, nothing special David. For any of you guys that were part of the old SNRA, this will be pretty standard from me. Anyway, here is a sneak preview as I finish up this thing and boy will I be glad when it is done. This has been never ending. Everything I do leads to something else that needs to be done but I am almost there.
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I look at it everyday and see all the goofs, mis-alignments and bad spots, you just see a pic once in a while. It may take me more than a day to get this done, the Arthur in my hands is making it hard to hold things but that's what they make Aleve for!! Hahaha! All day long, All day strong. I just wish they made something that made my eyes see better. Soon there will be outside pics of the Moo Juice Express. I think I will do some simple build after that, like a hobby stock 55 chevy or something.
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Everything I do leads to something else that needs to be done but I am almost there.
I thought that only happened in my builds. ??? This is a beautiful short-tracker. Love the decal work and the overall look of it.
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Paint scheme is outstanding work....
Looking GREAT!!
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Just, WOW, LT75!!! This Camaro is fantastic and it truly represents our favorite time in stock car racing!!! Thanks for taking us along through the build process. I especially enjoyed the segment on interior tin because that is something that I truly dislike about building race cars. Well done, sir!!!😎👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😎🏁
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What Gregg said, as well as the other comments!! Plus a huge 'WOW'' from me!! Excellent looking Camaro! Well done!
Rett
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....Outstanding build :).... will be using this as mid 70's dirt late Model reference material.
I do have a question....I'm intrigued..laying the radiator forward like you did....no fan blade necessary....was this for under the hood clearance or as a way to protect the lower portion of the radiator in the 1:1 world and did the air box out ahead of the radiator really direct enough air thru the radiator with out a fan blade pulling it thru....not doubting you, just want your take on it. Seen air boxes before, but never anything from that era on dirt.
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Brian, the radiator thing is something I saw a few times and an idea I borrowed from the Chaparral, McLaren and Lola's of that era. (Have a look at the radiator in those cars) There are a few more components that go with that sort of system but I left them off on this build. After all, it's a Model and Representation and not a replica and won't be turning real laps. Besides, most that see it won't know what they are looking at anyway. Since water weighs 8.34 pounds per gallon, the idea is to get that weight a little lower to help the CG and with under hood clearance as with the other cars I mentioned. During some slow pace laps or sitting in the pits a fan would help but while at speed there is plenty of air flow to cool. There is more to all this but we are building models, not the real thing so no need to go into all the details and theories. Since I built this one with some of my "twists" I added it. I had seen this years ago and thought it was a pretty cool idea. The cars I saw this on never ran over 210 degrees even in a 200 lapper and those guys were running up front and winning so they got something right. I am not sure about this system on dirt. You would have to figure out how to keep things from clogging up with mud to keep the air flow going but if you were using Methanol for fuel that might help some. The blue Av-Gas was nice but when you could get your hands on some of the Red stuff, that was the bomb.
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Thanks for the explanation guys, much appreciated.
This all stems from something I saw back in '79 or '80....there were 2 or 3 dirt Late Models ...I want to say that they were '70 or '71 Camaros with stock sheet metal, the grills/ front bumpers were stock appearing, not the Black plastic Howe pieces of the era.
What captured my attention was that the bottom of the front bumpers were aprox. 8 to 10 inches above the racing surface and that the height of the grill, above the top of the bumper, was around 6 inches. The hoods had a raised section in the middle, it appeared that the bottom of the hood rested on top of the air cleaner and valve covers. I could never quite figure out how a radiator would fit under the hood and not be scrapping the ground.
I am quite sure that I remember that they ran dry sumps as well.
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...Last night I was rummaging thru one of my ASA Thunderbird kits....just happened to notice that the radiator is laid forward w/ no fan blade in the instructions....very similar to this build.
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Ahhh! You have begun to learn, Grasshopper!
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Nice chassis work!!