Short Track Models
Construction Topics => Fab shop-under construction pics => Topic started by: Brian Conn on July 01, 2021, 06:40:41 PM
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This ones been talking to me for a while.....no , I haven't lost my faculties ???
(https://images15.fotki.com/v1674/photos/0/3714830/16369403/7121020-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/7-1-21-020.html)
A little over 3 years ago I bought the Super Stocker kit minus the GTO body from Tom Birky. Perfect for me since the chassis is a generic piece not meant to represent anything. Way before that, I got the Torino body from Marty W. not being a big fan of the '72's front grill/bumper fascia I figured I'd doing something with it some how.
What I'm going to try and accomplish here is to update the body to a '73 and shorten the area ahead of the front wheel well opening 6 scale inches like I did with the '73 Gran Torino from the 2019 Oktober fest C.B.P
I am going for a local dirt Late Model look from the mid 70's when there were still some 70 and 73 Chevelles, Plymouth Road Runners ,Dodge Chargers and the like competing in the Late Model class before the smaller bodied cars , like the Camaro, took over. I figure that the Super Stocker chassis will fit the bill perfectly since its suppose to be of that era.
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The first issue has reared its ugly head.... >:(
(https://images42.fotki.com/v886/photos/0/3714830/16369403/7221001-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/7-2-21-001.html)
The grill fascia is too wide. The grill is a resin cast of the Revell Starsky & Hutch Gran Torino...the rest of the body is a Jo-Han piece. The other '72 Torino's out there is the offerings from MPC and AMT/AMT/ERTL. I've successfully grafted the Revell grill on the AMT/ERTL recent release of the '72 Torino stock car with out a whole lot of body work involved. The original '72 Torino from Jo-Han is proportionally narrower than its '72 counterparts from MPC and AMT/AMT/ERTL
What I will do is cut the grill fascia into 3rds and piece it back together so as to be the same width as the fenders. I will end up doing the same procedure with the front bumper to narrow it as well. The gaps between the front of the hood and grill area will be filled in with Styrene strips.
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Going to be another fun one to watch come together. Bring on the updates.
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The more I look at this, you might have to add some styrene (or putty) to widen the raised contour section of the center of the hood. It might just be the camera angle but it'll be interesting to see. . .
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The more I look at this, you might have to add some styrene (or putty) to widen the raised contour section of the center of the hood. It might just be the camera angle but it'll be interesting to see. . .
What your seeing is the same thing I am seeing....
I had to re sculpt the hood w/styrene strips on the '73 Gran Torino I built a couple years ago for the Oktoberfest C.B.P I still have to shorten the hood 6 scale inches to match up with what has already been done with the front fenders. I was able to successfully narrow the grill and fill in the gaps between the hood and grill/cowl last night. I have a few other areas that need taken care of ....passenger side "A" pillar got broke off and re attached , need to fill the Left rear quarter panel fuel filler hole and remove all of the body side trim....kind of weird with a stock car side fuel fill hole(fuel neck is behind the license plate on the factory production version) and factory stock lower body trim.
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....Got the body work done for now...will return to it later to radius the wheel well openings and cut a hole in the Right side door area for the exhaust.
(https://images34.fotki.com/v1675/photos/0/3714830/16369403/7521001-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/7-5-21-001.html)
(https://images41.fotki.com/v1402/photos/0/3714830/16369403/7521003-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/7-5-21-003.html)
Narrowed the Revell front cowl/grill and bumper to fit the Jo-Han body. Reworked the Revell upper cowl area to fit the Jo-Han hood better. Took 6 scale inches out of the hood and re sculptured the contours of the raised center section of the Jo-Han hood to match the Revell Cowl.
Repaired the Right side "A" pillar that had been broken off, filled the NASCAR style fuel filler hole on the Left quarter panle and removed all of the badging and body side molding's.
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Already a lot of work into this one!
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Already a lot of work into this one!
Thanks for noticing....I saved my build notes that I scribbled on the instructions from the Oktoberfest Gran Torino which helped save some time with this one. I had/have to be careful when working with this 45+ year old plastic.
(https://images42.fotki.com/v1215/photos/0/3714830/16369403/7521009-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/7-5-21-009.html)
Decided to change this from a front steer to a rear steer...more on that later. The shaded area on the engine cross member will get removed and rework to make more room for the rear steer set up.
(https://images34.fotki.com/v1675/photos/0/3714830/16369403/7621003-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/7-6-21-003.html)
reworked engine cross member to match the existing cross member.
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Will the motor remain in the same place after narrowing that cross member so much or do you plan on moving it forward or backward a little? By the way, since you referenced it a couple of times I went back and looked at the final post for the Oktoberfest from a couple of years ago and your Torino did turn out very nice!
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Will the motor remain in the same place after narrowing that cross member so much or do you plan on moving it forward or backward a little? By the way, since you referenced it a couple of times I went back and looked at the final post for the Oktoberfest from a couple of years ago and your Torino did turn out very nice!
Rules back then (1975-77ish) allowed for the engine to be moved back 2" behind a line between the center points of the two upper ball joints to the center of the front spark plug so I'll do that utilizing a big block Ford truck oil pan ......sump to the rear like a Chevy. Will be using the big block Ford with the kit 180's which should make for fun times getting everything aligned....the Super Stocker Pontiac G.T.O had a 400 which was a longer, narrower engine.
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....I had mentioned something awhile back saying that every so often I take a good look at one of John Gorday's builds that he sent me a while back just to see how John Gorday does it here is a case in point.
(https://images34.fotki.com/v1675/photos/0/3714830/16369403/7821001-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/7-8-21-001.html)
John Gorday's Super Stocker on the Left and where I am at with mine on the Right. I have decided to do some subtle changes to the Super Stocker chassis as presented.
I want to do something different with the fuel cell which calls for the battery to be relocated.....not a whole lot of spare room to work with back there. I cut out the area on the Left front area of the fuel cell area where the battery goes and re located it to the Left rear area of the floor pan between the frame and transmission tunnel. I used Johns build to determine that the new location would work as planned.
I also want to complete the "X" that's on the bottom side of the floor pan. If you look at Johns build you will see where the "X" does not tie into the frame.....not Johns fault, rather who ever engineered the master.
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(https://images42.fotki.com/v1215/photos/0/3714830/16369403/007-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/007.html)
Here's what I did with the fuel cell ....the flat floor piece that the cell would be joined to, as on the Left, is now the top of the fuel cell. The fuel cell will now be attached to the bottom of the flat floor piece , upside down. I did this to hopefully show some more detail of the fuel cell with it now being dropped down between the frame rails since the body pretty much obscures everything behind the rear fire wall.
(https://images15.fotki.com/v1674/photos/0/3714830/16369403/003-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/003.html)
Added a section to the floor pan for the battery to be attached to ,directly behind the rear fire wall,
and moved the battery forward. Added a hold down piece across the top of the battery and wired the battery cables. Painted the battery to give the appearance that its contained in a metal box.
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Finished up the Ford big block....
Stumbled across this thread from Model Car Magazine ref: the MPC Super Stocker Series
http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/159433-125-mpc-super-stocker-series/ead from
Looks like they used the same engine no matter the kit.... be it a Pontiac 400 in the G.T.O , a 427 Chevy in the Don Gregory Camaro or what ever it was supposed to be in the Dick Trickle Mustang.....imagine the same engine was used in the Plymouth Barracuda kit.
(https://images15.fotki.com/v1674/photos/0/3714830/16369403/8721006-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/8-7-21-006.html)
Was able to use some of the kit parts for this engine build....180' headers, water pump and crank pulleys and belt,fan blade,starter, bell housing and Muncie transmission. More than likely this would have been the M-22 "Rock Crusher" transmission even though this transmission was bolted to the back of Chevy big blocks back in the day. There was someone, forgot who, that made a bell housing that adapted the Muncie tranny to a big block Ford engine also seen this combo w/ a small block Ford as well.
Aftermarket pieces include the air cleaner with a MOROSO cover and valve cover breathers. Gofer Racing pre wired distributor.
Resin cast oil pan,water pump, intake manifold , heads and Moroso big block Ford valve covers. Scratch built engine block, crank dampener and dual line Holley fuel rail plumbed to the fuel pump.
Disappointed with how the Molotow chrome pen worked on the Moroso air cleaner cover and the tops of the valve cover breathers. I allowed more than ample time for the chrome to dry...several days to be exact. Since others have stated that even if it is dry , you still cant touch it or it will ruin the reflective shine , I decided to apply a very light coat of Tamiya clear to hopefully seal it.... now it looks like I applied a dull coat to it. I'm going to go back to a Gloss Black base coat and Chrome from a rattle can when I do the resin front bumper. I have had trouble in the past using the Gloss Black base coat and Chrome on the Moroso air cleaner cover since it builds up around the letters and makes them difficult to make out.
(https://images40.fotki.com/v1668/photos/0/3714830/16369403/8721021-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/8-7-21-021.html)
Due to the position of the oil filter in relationship to the engine cross member , I decided to go with a remote filter set up...the two pieces coming out of the front side of the block.
I don't think that MPC, at the time back in '74, had envisioned that a big block Ford engine would occupy the engine bay.
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...More changes.....
(https://images42.fotki.com/v1416/photos/0/3714830/16369403/8721024-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/8-7-21-024.html)
Since the lower control arms are not representative of any particular manufacturers brand, I decided to make them into the Ford strut type of that era. Pictured is the kit lower control arm on the Left and the makings of a Ford strut type lower control arm on the Right.
(https://images44.fotki.com/v447/photos/0/3714830/16369403/8821004-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/8-8-21-003.html)
Added a cross member to mount the struts to. Pictured on the Right is John Gordays Super Stocker chassis for a comparison. I was planning on moving the radiator back since there is such a gap between it and the fan blade, even with the big block Ford, so the cross member does not present an issue where the radiator is concerned.
The kit pieces that I assume MPC mastered for struts (Silver pieces on Johns build going from the front of the lower control arm, under the steering linkage and connecting to the frame just behind the radiator) look more like sway bar mounting arms...so I will be using them to make a sway bar for the front.
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:) You are funny, Brian. My stuff is all pretty much box stock as I am a lover, not a fighter. I mean an artist, not a mechanic. ( " See how he did it. " )
But I am glad you could use it to see how to go. I have looked back at my own stuff at times, at previous builds, to see how things went together then.
Really, I don't know beans mechanically, but I do love racing.
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I, more than likely, would not have even considered doing this build had it not been for you sending the complete car back when you did. The chassis has been a huge help, so far, for me in making decisions on what I want to do and how I am going to go about doing it.
I will be taking your Super Stocker chassis to the model club meeting this Thurs. to help demonstrate what I have been doing with this build and changes that I have made.
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:) Well, Sir. I am pleased to be of help.
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When I first started out with this build, I had mentioned something about switching from a G.M front style steering (kit version very loosely based) to a rear steer Ford set up.
(https://images34.fotki.com/v1675/photos/0/3714830/16369403/81621003-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/8-16-21-003.html)
I could not locate the kit steering linkages....been so long....could have been snagged for another build or ended up in parts unknown...who knows.....so I ended up making a Ford intermediate frame inner and out tie rods and drag link out of K&S brass rod and soldered together the 3 pieces. Will be scratch building an idler arm and pitman arm/manual steering gear box to go with this.
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Rear Steer always seems to cause me clearance issues so for model building Front Steer is much preferred. As far as the racing aspect, each has some benefit depending on a list of variables.
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With the 1:1 scale builds, if the rules allowed at least 2" engine set back we would use an oil pan out of either a Ford van or pick up as the sump was at the rear of the pan verses the front as in passenger cars. With at least 2" of engine set back and the rear sump pan, there was just enough wiggle room for the steering linkages to have full range of motion with out coming into contact with anything.....if they started clunking on the pan, then you knew there was an issue. After 1979 it was never an issue as the Panther platform frame (LTD's , Grand Marquis, Lincolns) had a front steer set up.
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Finished up the front end for now...shocks and sway bar will come later.
(https://images41.fotki.com/v1673/photos/0/3714830/16369403/82221004-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/8-22-21-004.html)
(https://images46.fotki.com/v1645/photos/0/3714830/16369403/82221013-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/8-22-21-013.html)
Swapped the kit spindles Left for Right which places the steering linkage mounts to the rear. Gently moved the steering linkage mount portion of the spindle outboard with the help of some heat. Manual steering gear box from the parts box, K&S Brass Ford style steering linkages, scratch built idler arm and Pitman arm, added weight jack screws.
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UPDATE:
The kit rear sway bar and snubber (attached to center section of the kits quick change) bears a striking resemblance to this 2nd design Howe set up from Dec. of 1975 (Date on blue print)
(https://images34.fotki.com/v1675/photos/0/3714830/16369403/howerearsuspensioncopy-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/howerearsuspensioncopy.html)
(https://images20.fotki.com/v1672/photos/0/3714830/16369403/92421002-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/9-24-21-002.html)
Since this build is of that era, I repositioned the Left rear shock behind the rear axle. Installed upper and lower shock mounts for Left rear shock and attached rear sway bar mount to Right side frame rail made from Evergreen styrene strip.
Replaced kit coil spring and weight jack with a scratch built piece. Attached to Right rear showing compression in spring.
(https://images46.fotki.com/v1645/photos/0/3714830/16369403/92421005-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/9-24-21-005.html)
I never was quite satisfied with the way everything from the rear axle back seemed to be confined....so I made some changes.
Removed rear frame stub 6 mm. behind rear axle from the main portion of the frame. From the removed rear stub frame section cut off diagonal frame sections. Raised remaining rear stub frame section 4.37 mm. and added 10mm. of Evergreen styrene strip to tie the main frame section to the rear stub frame section at the frame rails
Removed kits support tubing between upper weight jack mount and rear part of frame
Added cross member directly in front of fuel cell made from Evergreen styrene rod
(https://images42.fotki.com/v1416/photos/0/3714830/16369403/92421007-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/9-24-21-007.html)
Replaced kit engine fire wall with a partial piece made from styrene sheet and widened the rear fire wall to fit the inside of the Gran Torino body with no gaps. Also, (not pictured) attached front sway bar mounting tube made from Evergreen styrene rod
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looks like its been almost a month since anything new ::)
(https://images41.fotki.com/v1670/photos/0/3714830/16369403/102021003-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-20-21-003.html)
Completed engine fire wall...now fits up against the inside of the body. Installed a brake proportioning valve scratch built from Evergreen styrene rod
(https://images15.fotki.com/v1674/photos/0/3714830/16369403/102021006-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-20-21-006.html)
Installed brake lines made from fly fishing lure wire between kit brake master cylinder to brake proportioning valve then to rear of chassis and Left and Right front wheels
(https://images15.fotki.com/v1674/photos/0/3714830/16369403/102021011-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-20-21-011.html)
Moved kit radiator back 6 ½ scale inches
Installed radiator cap from Detail Master
Installed scratch built partial fan shroud (front sides) made from printers tin
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I thought that the wheel inside (top) looked a little too plain.
(https://images14.fotki.com/v1676/photos/0/3714830/16369403/102721003-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-27-21-003.html)
Since I ran brake lines to the front and rear I needed something for them to terminate to. Being that this is suppose to represent a mid 70's late model, the rear will have drum brakes. To the contrary,however, I did find some Chrysler Kit Car (1:1 scale) information stating that the Chrysler Kit Car of this same time frame ran stock production MOPAR disk brakes on the rear.
The rear drums are a couple of wheel backs that I had in the stash that show some decent drum brake detail. For them to fit inside the kit wheel , I had to turn down the diameter of the wheel back and bore a larger center hole for the kit piece to fit thru.
The front disk brakes where a molded on part of a rear axle out of the stash. I removed them from the rear axle and removed a portion from each piece for the kit piece to fit thru.
The rubber brake line is from an USB cable.
(https://images20.fotki.com/v1672/photos/0/3714830/16369403/102721022-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-27-21-022.html)
I decided that I am not going to have one of those gravity defying engines that seem to float in mid air in the engine compartment. Made a set of Ford big block rear engine mounts out of styrene sheet. Those will mount to the forward portion of the frame"X" near where it joins the front portion of the frame.
(https://images46.fotki.com/v1645/photos/0/3714830/16369403/102821009-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-28-21-009.html)
(https://images41.fotki.com/v1673/photos/0/3714830/16369403/102821012-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-28-21-012.html)
The White styrene pieces are the front motor mounts
(https://images46.fotki.com/v1645/photos/0/3714830/16369403/102721023-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-27-21-023.html)
Barrowed this idea from Tom Birky on his dirt late model build http://www.shorttrackmodels.com/index.php?topic=753.30 I needed to show some sort of access panel or door above where the battery is located, so I made this door.
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Had some clearance issues under the hood....air cleaner ,distributor and oil breathers. Modified a hood that I got out of a LHS salvage bin a few years ago. Moving the drivers seat and dash back aprox. 6 scale inches....I like the way that looks better than what the instructions call for.
This will be next years car that will be going to the local model shows like the '55 Ford Custom Modified Street Stock did this year. I already have a couple different builds in mind that are already starting to talk to me after this one is complete....I'll see what direction this current build takes me :-\
(https://images34.fotki.com/v1675/photos/0/3714830/16369403/12221004-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/12-2-21-004.html)
Attached a filler piece between back of hood and engine fire wall made from sheet styrene
(https://images40.fotki.com/v1648/photos/0/3714830/16369403/12221015-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/12-2-21-015.html)
Narrowed kit dash board and added styrene sheet pieces to the top, front of dash to square it.
Filled holes where roll cage front upright tubing passes thru the kit dash board
(https://images46.fotki.com/v1671/photos/0/3714830/16369403/12221022-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/12-2-21-022.html)
Attached a raised hood section made from a MPC “Rat Trap” Chevy Vega Modified. Enlarged air cleaner opening and shortened raised hood section by removing 9.50 mm. from the rear portion
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...been a couple of months since the last update....
(https://images34.fotki.com/v1675/photos/0/3714830/16369403/21922009-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/2-19-22-008.html)
Decided to go with a clutch cable set up vs. a linkage set up. Converted the kit clutch pedal to a cable pull type. Used floral wire for the clutch cable. Scratch built a clutch fork
*builder note...the Ford Pintos of the era of the this build (mid "70's) used a clutch cable instead of the bulkier linkage set up.
(https://images14.fotki.com/v1676/photos/0/3714830/16369403/21922074-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/2-19-22-074.html)
Gauges and tach scanned from an AFCO racing catalog. Used the PhotoScape program along with MS Paint and copied to paper. Used floor wax on the gauge faces to give the illusion of depth.
(https://images14.fotki.com/v1676/photos/0/3714830/16369403/21922085-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/2-19-22-085.html)
Corrected the height of the steering wheel by lowering it. Cut the window net from the roll bar and repositioned it in a lowered position. Used a small soldering iron to heat the net and gently pushed it in to position.
Replaced kit piece with two diagonal bars that are attached between the upper,rear main cage and rearward portion of the frame behind the rear axle that also tie in to the coil spring/weight jack cross member mount made from Evergreen styrene rod
Attached White ribbon to kit seat belt and shoulder harness to show chassis mounting detail
Cut kit window net along the top where it joins the the roll bar and repositioned it in a lowered position. Added net fastening hardware made from Evergreen styrene rod styrene strip
Created an ignition switch panel, gauges and tachometer using the PhotoScape and MS Paint programs with pictures scanned from a stock car racing catalog.
Corrected height of the steering wheel by lowering it from the kit mounting location using Evergreen styrene strip. Replaced kit steering shaft between steering wheel and fire wall with a correct one and added a steering shaft between the fire wall and stearing gear box made from Evergreen styrene rod
Converted the clutch pedal from a push type linkage set up to a pull type cable set up using Evergreen styrene rod and strip.
Installed clutch cable and clutch fork made from floral wire and Evergreen strip
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You're doing a great job. The 70's are my favorite era in just about everything, especially stock car racing, more importantly local level racing. I'm a Ford blue oval guy through and through so I've been especially interested in your build. Thanks for sharing it.
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Your quite welcome :)
The body is starting to take shape...
(https://images14.fotki.com/v1676/photos/0/3714830/16369403/22022003-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/2-20-22-003.html)
(https://images34.fotki.com/v1675/photos/0/3714830/16369403/22022006-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/2-20-22-006.html)
(https://images15.fotki.com/v1674/photos/0/3714830/16369403/22022008-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/2-20-22-008.html)
Opened up wheel well openings on body for proper clearance of dirt racing tires
Cut hole in lower, rear portion of the Right side door for exhaust pipes to pass through
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(https://images46.fotki.com/v1671/photos/0/3714830/16369403/22722007-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/2-27-22-007.html)
Since everything has been moved back in the cockpit (steering wheel, seat, pedals) including the shifter, an extended shifter bracket is in order. This scratch built bracket extension and linkages moves the shifter mounting location back 11 scale inches.
I could not get a picture of this piece attached to the tail housing of the transmission due to the center frame "X" bracing and transmission mount all but obscuring it.
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.....Finally got over a builders block issue that I had and found more time to spend in the hobby room......
(https://images14.fotki.com/v1676/photos/0/3714830/16369403/53022201-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/5-30-22-201.html)
Finished the duct work ahead of the radiator and shroud behind it.
(https://images46.fotki.com/v1671/photos/0/3714830/16369403/53022203-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/5-30-22-203.html)
Started to run out of room under the hood, so I ended up mounting the coil to the fire wall and wired it to the distributor and battery. Upper and lower radiator hoses made from rubber cable insulation and hose clamps made from flattened wire. Weathered the engine compartment and chassis using earth tone paints.
Duct work ahead of radiator made from printers tin,styrene sheet and metal foil.
Fan shroud made from styrene sheet and metal foil.
Scratch built thermostat housing
Upper and lower radiator hoses from cable cord insulation
Hose clamps made from flattened 28 Gauge wire
Mounted aftermarket ignition coil to the Right side of the fire wall and wired to the battery and ignition coil
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Brian,
Thanks for all the info on this great build. You have shown an amazing amount of skill at body and fender work in a very small scale. I had a hard enough time trying to patch up my old F-150 (can't imagine who would buy a new one today) and can't imagine the tedious work it took on this project.
You brought up an interesting point about the Muncie tranny behind the big block Ford. I never saw that particular hookup. The "Rock Crusher" is a well known drag racing piece but the top loader Ford was a pretty good unit too. Just searched a bit to see who might make such a thing and saw that Speedy Bill Smith's operation offers one for the small block Ford that will take most any 4 spd so what you did is surely possible.
Had a friend who bought a 64 Galaxie 500 XL hardtop, brand new. Had the 427 with 2 4 bbl carbs and Ford 4 spd. First one I ever saw and went gaga over it of course. It was bright red and a nice side effect of all of that was that there was not a young lady in America who would have said "No" if he asked her out. A nice thing at that stage of our lives. He blew the rear end twice but the transmission survived until he got tired of spending money on busted parts.
Always a delight to see the different stages of your work.
MB
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Brian,
Thanks for all the info on this great build. You have shown an amazing amount of skill at body and fender work in a very small scale..........can't imagine the tedious work it took on this project.
...No, I should be thanking you for noticing what all has been done to this point. My wife can't understand why I am always looking at pictures of local stock cars while in the hobby room....I've tried to explain that my builds tend to be a conglomeration of several cars and that I need to make sure that I am headed in the right direction with a build. Case in point..... I'm afraid that I came a bit too close to over engineering the ductwork and fan shroud on this build with a car that would have run on a dirt track in the mid 70's.
I had a hard enough time trying to patch up my old F-150 (can't imagine who would buy a new one today)
ME...got one early last year when the dollar was still worth something and there still was trucks for sale on the lot....4X4 supercrew cab, love it!!
You brought up an interesting point about the Muncie tranny behind the big block Ford. I never saw that particular hookup. The "Rock Crusher" is a well known drag racing piece but the top loader Ford was a pretty good unit too. Just searched a bit to see who might make such a thing and saw that Speedy Bill Smith's operation offers one for the small block Ford that will take most any 4 spd so what you did is surely possible.
I'm going off of what I was told and what I seen when I was young and impressionable...here's what I can still recall being so much older now.
There was something about 3rd and 4th gear, particularly when shifting down into 3rd setting up for a turn (Sedalia, Missouri's 1 mile dirt track back in the day and the fairgrounds BIG 1/2 mile track here in Topeka as examples) and then up shifting on the back shute and front straight that made the Muncie more desirable than the Top Loader for some reason which escapes me at the moment.....gear synchronization perhaps??? final gear drive??? Also, the ability to run a Muncie in 3rd on the 1/4 mile and smaller bull rings with a small block. This was pre early 80's
As far as the bell housing goes, I have seen a Ford bellhouse that had the holes for the Top Loader filled and re drilled for a Muncie (local machine shop) and a manufactured bell housing from a company that was big in the 70's ...saw their stickers everywhere and on everything..... that has since gone out of business. I can still see the sticker but can't for the life of me member who it was....I do recall, however, them having a big block and small block to Muncie bell house for the Fords
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I dont have any experience with race cars on a mile track or bigger. Most of our guys ran 3 spds and ran them in second gear all the time. I can see on a bigger track you could get more speed on the straights and use the downshift into the corners. I know the NASCAR guys all used 4 spds and some of those old tracks were quite small.
I am more familiar with the Muncie in drag racing applications. We all knew that the Muncie was the strongest and that there were a lot of gear sets available. We were all stick shift guys in the mid 1960's and called automatic transmissions "slush buckets" or "girl cars". It took me some time to learn that Dick Landy, the Ram Chargers and others, were beating the stick shift guys all to pieces with 3 spd automatics.
Speedway Motors has long been catering to the circle track guys as Bill himself was one of them. They may well have had bellhousings and stuff to stick the Muncie behind a big block Ford.
Life is always a learning experience I think.
MB
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There hasn't been any racing on Sedalias dirt 1 mile for about 40 yrs due in part to the insanely fast speeds that where occurring. There is still racing on the 1/2 mile dirt track that is on the infield of the old 1 mile. I was at the State Fair Grounds where these tracks are located a year or so ago....you can still see where the 1 mile was at as it is used as an access road now days.
I remember seeing my first automatic in a dirt late model at the Fall race at the old fairgrounds track here in Topeka in 1979. I was wondering thru the pits with a buddy looking the cars over before the races and noticed an automatic floor shifter in one of the cars....reworked G.M Powerglide tranny....as I recall it was an Iowa car, unknown driver. As more and more automatics started showing up in the late models around here , I noticed that with the automatics , it seemed that the driver could take the car deeper into the turns than with a manual.
................... I am more familiar with the Muncie in drag racing applications. We all knew that the Muncie was the strongest and that there were a lot of gear sets available.
MB
I presume that the Ford guys that switched over to the Muncie from the Toploader did so for those reasons alone if nothing else.....
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Brian,
This has turned into a great conversation. The topic of using automatic transmissions in circle track cars is a very interesting topic that I would like very much to know more about. We had a very good opponent, on a third mile dirt track, who ran the automatic trans in a 1955 Oldsmobile. He was a consistent winner.
I know that the Powerglides, Powerflites, Fordomatics and others were all 2 spd trannies. As a kid I worked on some of these in the local garage. I learned just enough to be dangerous I guess. I did rebuild several 3 spd Torqueflites in Chrysler cars and am fairly familiar with them. A good friend runs a transmission shop in our little town. He told me the enemy of them is heat and good factory transmissions have a lifetime of about 150,000 miles, after than expect trouble at any time.
So I have wondered about how these may have worked when used in circle track racecars. They can certainly modified to shift faster than a stick shift, and to stand whatever amount of power you wish to put them behind.
I would like to hear accounts of racers that used these and what were the advantages/disadvantages.
MB
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I'm no automatic transmission expert for sure but there was a dirt late model that raced at Atomic Speedway just, just outside of Knoxville TN that ran a power glide. This would have been in the early to mid 80's. Not sure if he ever won, but he was a consistent top 10 car. Here's the part that I don't understand, maybe Brian will know, the car owner told me that there was no torque converter? There was a good sized brass hydraulic valve mounted to the bottom door bar. The driver would put the car in gear and open the valve at a moderate speed, almost like releasing the clutch pedel. The car would start rolling and he was off. I'm sure that I probably didn't completely answer your question, but I hope that I helped a little.
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.....................Here's the part that I don't understand, maybe Brian will know, the car owner told me that there was no torque converter? There was a good sized brass hydraulic valve mounted to the bottom door bar. The driver would put the car in gear and open the valve at a moderate speed, almost like releasing the clutch pedel. The car would start rolling and he was off............
This is from the 1982 Midwest Race Engineering (MRE) catalog....
(https://images20.fotki.com/v1678/photos/0/3714830/16378196/autotrans-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/short-track-model-forum/autotrans.html)
That is correct, there was no torque converter. The trans fluid was pumped with a beefed up racing version of the transmission pump.....kind of hard to see, but some of those parts are in the bags in the above picture. The hydraulic valve is in the upper Right hand corner of the bag.
A transmission cooler (small radiator) was a must when running a glide to due the modifications made to transmission.
Think of opening the valve as running low on transmission fluid. At some point the transmission does not engage due to the lack of fluid. Add the correct amount of fluid and the transmission engages. The valve was between the transmission pump and the inner parts of the transmission. When the car was stopped but still running the driver had to put the transmission in neutral as it would stall out the engine if the valve was still open since there was only a pump and no torque converter.
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Thank you for the explanation Brian. Just reading some of your stuff and through our PM's I felt like you would know.
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Just did a brief internet search while eating my lunch. Turned up all kinds of info on using the Powerglide transmission in circle track cars. This is a whole new world of info for me. I am basically familiar with auto trannies but not sure of what the advantages are in running one in a circle track race car. Weight may be one of them. Stuff I just read talked about leaving various parts out of the trans to save weight. Same goes for running without a torque convertor.
Extremely interesting topic. I sure would like to know more about the reasoning behind using these transmissions instead of a 3 or 4 spd manual.
MB
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Just did a brief internet search while eating my lunch. Turned up all kinds of info on using the Powerglide transmission in circle track cars. This is a whole new world of info for me. I am basically familiar with auto trannies but not sure of what the advantages are in running one in a circle track race car. Weight may be one of them. Stuff I just read talked about leaving various parts out of the trans to save weight. Same goes for running without a torque convertor.
Extremely interesting topic. I sure would like to know more about the reasoning behind using these transmissions instead of a 3 or 4 spd manual.
MB
Going back to the MRE catalog from 1982, the Powerglide trans kit was priced at $317.00 and what would have cost for a salvage yard glide and now your looking at just North of $400.00 As a side note , I dug out my copy of the rules for the Strictly Street Stock class at Topeka Raceway (1/4 mile banked dirt) from 1984. As far as transmissions go, the only rules where the transmission must be in the stock position and must be a minimum of two forward and 1 reverse gear. No 5 speeds,couplers or dog clutches There was a $350.00 engine claim...basically a long block. So if one wanted to put a $400.00 plus Powerglide in his Street Stock in 1984 , he could...legally. Back in the early 80's, $400.00 could have scored you 6 or 7 Muncies ready to go which looks better for the Muncie. Now for the otherside....
The race prepped Powerglides could shift quicker, especially that all important shift from 1st to 2nd on a restart......imagine being in the 3rd row on a re-start with the other 4 cars ahead of you running manual transmissions. At the drop of the Green, if you had a clear track, you could get a jump out ahead of at least 3 of them before setting up for turn 3. With a Powerglide the driver could take the car deeper into the turn....imagine there is slop on the low groove and the middle groove is starting to fade and go away...the top groove is still decent and those that can run there are at an advantage. As far as weight goes, with time and more aftermarket parts available for the glide, it got lighter. The late 70's version weighed more simply by the fact that the stock internals were still being used where applicable. About the time that the direct drive trannys started showing up(Brinn,Bert late 80's early 90's) the racing Powerglide where indeed noticeably lighter , but with all the trick stuff being sold by B&M , TCI, etc. etc. the prices made them right at or above the "NEW" direct drives which were designed for circle track racing verses the Powerglide that was adapted. Eventually, the racing Powerglide cost more than the direct drives. What kept the Powerglides in the racing picture was when rules stipulated no direct drives, but said nothing of running a torque converter or not....those with the deep pockets and plenty of $$$ still ran the racing version of the Powerglide. As time marches on the price of the "original" Powerglide transmissions keeps going up as its been out of production since 1973...however, aftermarket, new Powerglides start @ $2000.00 ......for a cool 5 Grand you can get a Glide that's good for 2200 H.P ...so that would be the Speedway Motors connection to all of this, you can still get a "Powerglide" from them but be ready to shell out about $2500.00 for a race ready version for your Street Stock or "Economy" Modified
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All very interesting stuff. I have paid attention to the use of automatic transmissions in drag racing but not kept up with it in circle track stuff. Thanks Brian for all the neat info. I have done a bit of research and see a lot of talk about saving weight in the transmission by using an aluminum case and maybe only low gear. I also read some about running the engine with no torque convertor so it turned up quicker when you got on the throttle. In my racing era I used to think that some of the bigger engines with their torque and horsepower at lower RPM's had some advantage as they got the power on the track quicker than our small bock chevy which had to reach a fairly high RPM to develop it's power. There were lots of engines raced at Indy that had more power than the 4 cyl "Offy" which was king there for 50 yrs. But it was always said that nothing came out of a turn faster than the Offy. It had it's power at lower RPM.
Read a story about a guy in Alberta Canada who had a 70 something Dodge Dart with a Hemi in it and participated in Hot Rod Magazines "drag week" where they had to drive to 5 different cities for drag racing each day. So the car had to be streetable. He had a built up hemi with 2 turbos and electronic fuel management. Dynoed over 2000 HP! He could detune it to drive on the street then boost it up again for the track. He was using a GM TH 400 auto trans. I think it may have been reduced to just 2 gears as we see in circle track racing. I know it shifted at least once. The second day he blew the front clutch carrier as it split under power. One of his competitors using the same trans offered him a replacement and helped him repair it. This camaraderie used to exist in short track racing back in the day too. Sad that got lost. Anyway the moral of this story is that someone makes a front clutch carrier out of aluminum that can stand that kind of power. I thought steel would be stronger but not aluminum. Racing both straight line and circle track have come a long ways since 1965.
It is always a pleasure to see the ingenuity of racers in developing new ideas and new parts. Been a great development field for the automotive world in general too. Going faster always requires lots of engineering developments!
MB
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Off to the body shop :)
(https://images12.fotki.com/v1677/photos/0/3714830/16369403/61922005-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/6-19-22-005.html)
(https://images20.fotki.com/v1678/photos/0/3714830/16369403/61922011-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/6-19-22-011.html)
I didn't quite like the way that the Right side tires/wheels sat too far inboard, so I took some artistic liberties ::)
I ended up destroying the Right front spindle in an attempt to do an alignment with out the wheels and tires on...wont be doing that again....scratch built a new spindle. As I have stated before, the Jo-Han body is proportionally off, which has lead to other issues where the roll cage was concerned. In making the cage fit up properly, the body had to be shifted slightly to the Left which was o.k for the Left side tires...not so much for the Right side. I corrected this by adding aprox. 3 mm. to the upper and lower control arms and Right side rear axle tube.
I'm not quite sure about the offsetting (longer Right side control arms and offset rear axle) as it would pertain to a dirt late model from the mid 70's ...plausible maybe?? if someone knows more, I sure would like to hear about it.
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Brian,
Great piece of work. Can't wait to see it painted. You must have a ton of hours in it to get to this stage.
MB
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Brian,
You are a man possessed with great patience. This project is so tedious that I would have had my hair ripped out by this time. Looking forward to more build posts and of course the finished product.
MB
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...Thank you Nathan....
...Reminds me of a quote from John Quincy Adams "Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish."
Some inside baseball stuff...for whats its worth ::)
I had all intentions of having the car ready for a show Sept 17th in Leavenworth, Ks. it now appears that won't be happening.....it will be done by Nov. for the Ad Astra model club show here in Topeka and I have full intentions on entering it and possibly the '55 Ford Custom Modified Street Stock from last year in the K.C Slammers show in Overland Park, Ks. next June.
I have already done more to the '73 Gran Torino than the '55 Ford Custom as far scratch building and making changes to the Super Stocker kit chassis and Jo-Han Torino body.
Last week I began the process of final priming and light sanding before laying down some color...discovered that the body sat anywhere from an 1/8" to a 16th" lower than what I wanted....which has led to re-sculpting the wheel wells now and also discovered that the rear window opening was too wide as compared to the AMT/ERTL '72 Torino Stock Car that was released a few years ago.
Back to the hobby room for now......
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Brian,
It is nice to see that you have a good eye for even minor details. I last built an AMT 40 Ford Coupe, for entry in a store contest in Ellsworth, ME. That would have been about 1964. I got second, which was not bad but never had the interest in pleasing anyone but me.
I have spent most of my life building and repairing homes. A sideline has been building wood boats and wood canoes. In the old days that design work was all done to please the eye. The idea being "if it looks good, it is good". Not many have that kind of eye for detail in my experience. But you have a master eye for detail in 1/25 scale, which I think is much more difficult then dealing with 1:1 scale like I have.
Keep us updated.
MB
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Finished the decals.......
(https://images15.fotki.com/v1673/photos/0/3714830/16369403/L1decalssizedCopy-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/l1-decalssized-copy.html)
Used MS Paint and PhotoScape...started shooting some color on the body :)
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I can't wait to see the next update. I check almost daily.
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I can't wait to see the next update......
Here ya' go
(https://images14.fotki.com/v1676/photos/0/3714830/16369403/10522005-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-5-22-005.html)
This is as shiny as its going to get....decals and weathering coming up. Decanted Tamiya Pure White (TS-26) and Blue (TS-15) Shot a thin coat of floor wax thru the air brush to seal the paint.
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Looks great Brian!
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Last update here...next post will be in Cars with Fenders-production bodies/late models after decals and further weathering when this one is done in a few days.
(https://images12.fotki.com/v1677/photos/0/3714830/16369403/102422004-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-24-22-004.html)
(https://images34.fotki.com/v1675/photos/0/3714830/16369403/102422007-vi.jpg) (https://public.fotki.com/outlaw-ford/73-torino-late-model/10-24-22-007.html)
BREAKER, BREAKER anyone got a copy on me, come on.....
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:) Looks pretty wicked to me.
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Brian, You've done an excellent job of capturing the Saturday night, local short track look with this one. Well done.
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....Build is done......finished pictures posted in the Cars with Fenders-production bodies/late models section.